Is my egg-head scrambled or sunny side up?
The past 20 years or so have seen an explosion of conversions from Protestantism to Catholicism. During that time, a certain common narrative seems to be associated with these conversions (including my own):
- Protestant is a devout Christian who knows his faith and initially has no interest in the Catholic Church.
- Some issue or event spurs the Protestant to investigate the claims of the Catholic Church.
- This leads to more and more study of the Church’s teachings, in spite of internal and external resistance to the idea.
- Through a long study of the Scriptures and early Church, Protestant begins to realize that Catholic Church is “The Church.”
- Finally, after much prayer, Protestant decides to become Catholic.
On the other hand, there has also been an even greater exodus out of the Catholic Church over the past 40 years. Some of that is people leaving Christianity altogether, but much of it is Catholics becoming Evangelical. The narrative for that type of conversion is usually along the lines of:
- Catholic grows up with little training in the Catholic faith.
- Catholic barely, if at all, practices his faith as he gets older.
- At some point, Catholic realizes that there is more to religion than felt banners and banal homilies.
- Catholic is invited to an Evangelical Protestant service and meets devout, good people who are on fire for the Lord.
- Catholic decides to become Evangelical.
Yes, I realize that there are generalizations in these narratives, but I think most of us recognize that in many cases they broadly represent reality. Norm Geisler, a prominent Evangelical, sums it up like this:
So, while we are losing a few intellectual egg-heads out the top of evangelicalism to Rome, we are gaining tens of thousands of converts out the bottom from Catholicism. The trade-off highly favors evangelicalism.
Source: Dr. Beckwith
Even aside from the derogatory “egg-head” comment, this is an interesting analysis from Mr. Geisler. He basically admits that converts to Catholicism are intellectual, thus acknowledging that they have studied their faith, while converts to Evangelicalism are basically “falling out” of the Catholic Church without any real knowledge of Catholicism (or Protestantism) before their conversion. Even though the raw numbers today favor Evangelicalism, is this movement really to the benefit of the Evangelical’s cause?
It seems to me that, long-term, I would prefer to have converts who deeply know (and love) both their previous faith and their new one. Converts who must agonize over their conversion, studying every angle of it, are usually those who most seriously embrace it after it is done. Those who convert for basically emotional reasons (I saw on-fire people and want that for myself) are much more likely to eventually drift away. But the “egg-head” convert, with the grace of God, is going to be much more likely to spread his new-found faith to others, understanding both what is good about their previous faith and why he left it.
All in all, I’ll take the egg-heads. Sunny side up (perhaps that should be “Son-ny side up”?), not scrambled.
Do I detect a bit of jealousy from Mr. Beckwith regarding Protestants who become Catholics?
I actually liked the felt banners – but it was what seemed like dead, dry, meaningless ritual that drove me away. Now almost 30 years later, having spent 2 years in an evangelical seminary & have a better grasp on Scripture, I guess I’d be considered one of those ‘egg-heads’ who is amazed by the richness of theology embedded in the liturgy and the depth in Catholic spirituality & teaching – which I found sorely lacking in Evangelicalism. I’ve been enjoying your blog!
Actually, no. From some other sources, I suppose you could attribute jealousy, but if you follow Francis Beckwith, you can be assured that jealousy is not the motive here.
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Pingback by Tweets that mention Is my egg-head scrambled or sunny side up? « Divine Life – A Blog by Eric Sammons -- Topsy.com — January 12, 2011 @ 9:53 amThere are some additional important issues that we need to consider:
1) Most adults who enter the Church are young adults, the vast majority of whom are there for marriage/family reasons. Only about 12% (according to 2000 US Bishop’s study) are in RCIA because they are on a personal spiritual journey.)
2) The majority who are received at Easter will have ceased to practice within a year which makes sense if the majority were just jumping through a hoop to get that wedding in a pretty church or to please family members.
3) In any case, the number of adults entering the Church has dropped like a stone since 2001 – the high point with 178,000 entering at Easter. The numbers have dropped 33% over the past 8 years (the 2009 figure was 119,000). Since Catholic marriage has also dropped a similar percentage in that time, and 40% of Gen X/millennial Catholics aren’t married in the Church, I think it is because that particular brass ring isn’t drawing this generation of young adults across the threshold.
4) RCIA graduates are twice as likely to have BA’s as the US population as a whole. The people most likely to enter but not finish RCIA are those with only a high school education or less. RCIA is run by educated people for educated people. The result is that we are unintentionally weeding out less educated converts. (You should hear the RCIA stories I’ve heard from people with strong spiritual drive but little education. One young man described it as being herded like cattle to get a certificate.) The irony is that a faith that was famously practiced by peasants is rapidly becoming the faith of high culture intellectuals in this country. And we don’t grasp how off-putting that can be for the 75% of Americans who don’t fall into that category.
5) Remember the stories we hear through the media have been filtered. Popular conservative Catholicism has a “paradigm” for conversion stories that we publicize and it is the trajectory that you articulated above. I’ve noticed that Catholic media doesn’t zero in on the many stories that don’t fit the paradigm above.
It is, in many ways, a male paradigm (we especially rejoice in the conversion of Protestant clergy) and overwhelmingly, the stories broadcast are of men but the majority of converts are women whose reasons are usually more relational and mystical than intellectual. I have met countless converts in my travels, 90% of whose reasons for entering the Church don’t fit the paradigm. These women and men are never going to be on the Coming Home Network.
The Pew Forum found that 2.6% of American adults are converts to Catholicism. That’s over 6 million people and the majority aren’t men or intellectuals.
Eric, I disagree with your assessment.
1. You say: “[Mr. Geisler] basically admits that converts to Catholicism are intellectual, thus acknowledging that they have studied their faith, while converts to Evangelicalism are basically ‘falling out’ of the Catholic Church without any real knowledge of Catholicism (or Protestantism) before their conversion.”
That is a clever observation, but that is not what Geisler is admitting. If the last 50 to 100 years of Modernism in the Church taught us anything, it is that further study can sometimes lead us “astray” rather than to the truth. Geisler would argue that Dr. Hahn et.al. have, to quote Fr. Corapi, been “educated unto imbecility”. Some people can be intellectually persuaded by arguments made for an erroneous position.
2. You say: “Even though the raw numbers today favor Evangelicalism, is this movement really to the benefit of the Evangelical’s cause? It seems to me that, long-term, I would prefer to have converts who deeply know (and love) both their previous faith and their new one. Those who convert for basically emotional reasons (I saw on-fire people and want that for myself) are much more likely to eventually drift away.”
First, numbers are important too. Let’s not minimize the importance of “raw numbers”. Eric, that almost sounds like “sour grapes”.
Second, you are assuming those who convert to Protestantism for emotional reasons remain on a superficial level rather than immersing themselves in their new faith community and grow deeper. If anything, they get excited enough about their new faith community that they do immerse themselves in study and spirituality. Sure, some don’t, but a lot do.
3. I’d rather have humble laypeople than proud intellectuals in my Church. Too many famous converts in the Church have swelled heads. In the end, the true Christian isn’t the one who “knows” more than most, but the one who “loves” more than most.
A main reason for leaving the Church is mortal sin. Many who leave refuse to accept the fact that they are in a state of mortal sin, whether it’s support for abortion, missing Mass, divorce, or whatever it is, and instead of following the Church and being obedient, they run away to some protestant group that tells them they can do whatever they want to do because no matter what, they are “saved”. Being a Christian is hard work and often requires painful reflection and understanding of what we are, regularly sinful, in need of repentance, in need of the sacraments, and often too proud to obey and do what we must. Some people really try to work this out, while most it seems seek the easy way of being “protestant” and believe themselves free to make up their own rules. Some of those even have the guts to leave the Church publicly, but many continue to claim they are Catholic and stay, and just grumble about the problems with the Church, and state that they believe this, but not that, and try to encourage others to do the same. What’s worse?
Pope Benedict was prophetic when he said recently that the Church will be smaller and purified.
You may not realize that Dr. Beckwith, the famous evangelical, has recently come home to the Catholic faith. He gave up his prestigious position and submitted himself to Jesus Christ and the Church He started 2000 years ago. Dr. Beckwith now is able to experience the joy of full communion with Jesus Christ as he receives His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity daily if he so wishes at Mass. Catholics experience not only Jesus Christ with their whole heart and soul, but also with their intellect and will. Welcome home Dr. Beckwith.
Wow! Thanks for the post, Eric.
And thanks for your commentary, Sherry; I love your Intentional Disciples blog and your current global Christianity series.
The problem with Geisler’s view is that hes valuing quantity over quality when this seems precisely the opposite of what Jesus has routinely valued throughout history. For the perfect case study, check out John 6. Jesus was more satisfied with the minority convinced of Jesus’ Eucharistic mandate rather than the majority that left.
From my experience–and this may conflict with Sherry’s–most Protestant converts to Catholicism are well-acquainted with the Protestant faith they are leaving, while most Catholics leave a straw-man faith that sounds nothing like the true Church (“I realized I didn’t want to be part of a religion that hates homosexuals, demeans women, supports child abuse, and never emphasizes a personal relationship with Jesus.”)
On another note, Sherry’s insights on non-intellectual converts was very compelling to me; I’ve never considered the conversion and RCIA processes through the lens of the non-schooled, but now I will. Thanks!
We’ll need the intellectual types when we face the tortures we’ll be facing – one has to know what one will be persecuted for.
As for RCIA – I can say it is not intellectual. How can you enter a Church with only feeling and ignorance. To explain the faith is not egg-head. You do common sense folks disservice to claim such. Scott Hahn…imbecility? Talk about jealousy!
Egg heads are self-created, and some of them come to the Catholic faith. Celebrate that. Were more common sense believers seeking egg-headedness, Christ would be all the more honored that His people care enough while they are spreading Him.
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Pingback by WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON EDITION | ThePulp.it — January 12, 2011 @ 1:07 pmI know I’ll be inviting someone’s ire by saying this, but I think an important point needs to be made about Eric’s first bullet point, viz. a Protestant convert to Catholicism is a devout Christian who knows his faith…
Now, is this really true? Can we really say, without qualification, that a Protestant is ever a devout Christian? Presumably the converts themselves would not say this. They would say, rather, that they converted precisely because they became aware of the fact that in order to be fully devout, they could no longer eschew the Catholic Church. If they did not believe conversion was necesary for their salvation, there would be no reason to do it. Thus, by their own words, their pre-conversion status as devout Christians is flagged as questionable.
I know, I know: anybody who has received a valid Christian baptism is in fact a Christian, and a Catholic unawares. I would never dispute this perfectly correct point. But what I’m saying is, the Catholic understanding of Jesus, the Passion, the Church, Sacramentality, the Scriptures, and so many other things differs so radically from the Protestant understanding that an observant Protestant, be he never so devout, is in fact practising a faith apart from true, apostolic Christianity. My concern is that many of these converts to Catholicism are in fact living out their Catholic lives as crypto-Protestants, unbeknownst even to themselves, and have never really drank the milk of real Catholic theology.
Dr. Scott Hahn is a good case in point. Now, of all the Catholic lay apologists who flood the airwaves these days, Scott Hahn is one of the better ones in terms of his orthodoxy (there are some truly execrable ones out there). But it is also quite obvious that he has retained the full look and personality of a Presbyterian minister. His practice may be Catholic, but his terroir is definitely Protestant. He loves to “preach it, brother,” loves the sound of his own voice, and he revels in his supposedly superior knowledge. Is it so much of a stretch to believe that he is too blinded by his intellectualism to humbly accept all the Church really is?
I would also agree wholeheartedly with Sherry that there are many conversion stories that don’t really fit the “Coming Home” narrative. I myself am one of these. I disagree, however, that the narrative-fitting converts are guilty of intellectualizing the Church. They are in fact de-intellectualizing it, diluting it, and making it more touchy-feely Protestant. Have you ever seen one of Steubenville’s balloon masses? Furthermore, if we had genuine Catholic intellectuals who were intellectualizing the Church the right way, that would hardly be a bad thing. For historical reasons largely related to successive waves of European immigrant Catholics coming to America, the Catholic Church in this country consists mainly of the scions of sodbusters and greasemonkeys who don’t know how to do anything except vote Democrat and get fooled by hucksters. That partially explains the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in. It has to change as soon as possible.
Eric, I think you’ve summed it up very well. Converts to Catholocism are going to be those who are convinced the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and as such has the authority to teach. Probably, most are reluctant to have to accept that; but, with God’s grace, they do. After all, Protestantism is a whole lot “easier.” There’s not much required by Protestantism. You can be divorced and re-married. If you don’t go to church every week, it’s OK. You don’t have to go to Confession if you commit a mortal sin. In fact, what is a mortal sin in Protestantism? You can have an abortion. You can use condoms, etc. It takes a lot of moral courage and a LOT of love of Christ to become a Catholic.
HiEric
Interesting discussion. As a former Baptist who converted about 3 years ago, I find it interesting that the opposite point of this discussion – is rarely discussed in the Evangelical churches I have been associated with..They don’t seem to mind who comes in as long as they are accepting Christ..
I have found that there is a road to higher understanding of my faith in the CC but there is also that simple connection to Christ and his teachings especially in the smaller parishes.
Good writings and I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts moving forward!
I’ve heard this called “The Game of Spades” before. Almost like in the card game “War”, you may lose many hands of low numbered cards, but its winning the aces and kings that really count in the long run.
I raised six children (now adults) in the Catholic Faith. Only one is practicing his faith and I would call him “lukewrm”. The rest are highly resistant to my Catholic Evangalism. I’m convinced that “the spirit of Vatican 2″ teachings during the 70-80′s had a lot to do with their disinterest and subsequent attraction to protestant evangelical communities. They also have problems with the hard “teachings” of the Faith such as Birth control, confession and the Holy Eucharist teachings.We pray everyday for their return. I think that it’s going to take their friends who discover the catholic church and then they’ll return.
I can’t feel optimistic when we’re creating so many Catholics who barely know or practice their faith.
Even the “coarsest” unchurched Catholics used to say a Hail Mary or an Our Father regularly, abstain from meat on Fridays, have a favorite saint, and call for a priest when a loved one was near death. Most would regard abortion and divorce as unthinkable, too.
We aren’t making bad Catholics like we used to.
Intellectual converts and intellectual cradle Catholics are prone to pride, nitpicking, and imposing an intellectualist schema on people who don’t approach religion the same way. If we get too many intellectual converts without shoring up the “instinctual” Catholics, the parish of the future will look too much like a college Bible study for middle class professionals and not something that anyone can attend from cradle to grave.
Very thought provoking.
I can see how RCIA could be labelled as “by egg-heads, for egg-heads”. There is some heady stuff in there!
But how, pray tell, do you make it less ‘intellectual’ without falling into the “Spirit of Vatican II” inanity? The truths of the faith must be expressed!
As I think back on the many whom I’ve assisted into the Church by teaching RCIA, the most faithful Catholics (ie the ones who continue to practice…sadly they are few, and some have moved away and may yet practice) are those who are not egg-heads at all.
There are good insights in all of these posts. I don’t care for the zero-sum, who is winning the numbers game thinking. Christianity as a whole is under attack. Let those who are sick of the felt banners and content-free sermons go where their spiritual needs are met, and let those who have discovered the Church come in. Both groups are composed of people of good will who have been let down by the religion they were born in. We can all go back to fighting each other after the attack on us all passes away.
I do very high level, very funny, very high energy popular teaching of the faith for a living. It is entirely possible to do really quality, totally orthodox formation designed for non-intellectuals.
It does take a sophisticated knowledge of the faith and considerable creativity in bringing it down to earth without distorting it, but it can be done. And work. But it’s a lot of fun.
We have to care more for those we are seeking to evangelize than for our own comfort level. And a charism of teaching really helps! Also all your RCIA team need to be disciples themselves cause you can’t pass on something you have never experienced!
Eric, I just want to share that in my little circle I know of one story about a former Catholic who asked her pastor in the 80s, I think, if he could start a bible study in the parish but Fr. X had no interest in doing so. She explained to me that her reason for becoming an Evagelical Protestant had everything to do with feeling hurt and mildly mocked by her former Catholic pastor. I also know of several Catholics who have become disillusioned apostates or heretics because of the hypocrisy of the Catholics (some priests some not) who sexually abused them.
I’m a convert who took a route much like the one described by Eric in this post. I have a college degree and am working on a master’s.
A good post, but some of the comments (primarily Matt’s) disturbed me a little, since one of the things we were taught in RCIA was that everyone converts for different reasons. Just because they are different doesn’t mean they’re bad. Matt’s comments about “crypto-Protestants” and his doubting of people’s conversions (like Scott Hahn’s) was particularly brutal.
Regarding all the comments, I think we all have to keep in mind that converts to the Catholic Church aren’t perfect, but none of us inevitably endangers the Church based on why or how we came into the Church. What’s equally and probably more important is how we grow in living the faith and in understanding it after we’ve initially become Catholics. And we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to grow.
Matt, Kevin, and Cordelia: well stated.
Matt W., people do convert for a number of reasons – and that goes both ways (Catholic to Protestant and Protestant to Catholic – despite what apologists on both sides might say to the contrary).
Wade: Thank you, sir. I read your blogger profile, by the way. Congratulations on all you’ve accomplished.
Matt W: I’m not sure what was so disturbing about my comment. I was careful to compliment Dr. Hahn for what he was doing right. I merely point out that he remains very Protestant in his habits (an observation which, it must be stated, is hardly original to me).
Matt and Wade,
I must profoundly disagree with your assessments of the “catholicity” of modern intellectual converts, especially Dr. Hahn. Based on what you both have written, it seems to me that you have established your own standard of what it means to be “Catholic”, and anyone who does not meet your standard is still “Protestant”, at least in habit. However, your standard appears only to be what you have decided is truly Catholic, and not what the Church herself allows within her bosom. Is it really not Catholic to “preach it, brother”? Give me a break. By your standards, I’m sure St. Francis of Assisi would have been run out of the Church in his time.
Furthermore, a warning: both of you have made derogatory remarks about public figures which I will not tolerate on my blog. Matt, you said that Dr. Hahn “loves the sound of his own voice”. This is an uncharitable slander. Wade, you stated that “famous converts” (and there are only a few such figures) have “swelled heads”. Again, a slander with only your opinion to support it. I do not mind constructive criticism of my posts, but any more derogatory comments about public figures (who cannot defend themselves here) will be summarily deleted.
Matt: Protestant habits or no, Scott Hahn is anything but how you describe him here: “he revels in his supposedly superior knowledge. Is it so much of a stretch to believe that he is too blinded by his intellectualism to humbly accept all the Church really is?”
I have met him, and I confronted him intellectually on something (not a part of the faith) that I thought he had gotten wrong. His humility was inspiring, and I came away feeling like a jerk who had just thoughtlessly targeted a holy man.
Sherry,
Thank you for sharing your extensive experience with us – you give us all very good perspective on this issue.
It is true that the type of converts I mention in my post are only a subset of all converts. My post does not apply to those converts who become Catholic primarily for family or marriage reasons. And we must always remember that EVERY convert is valued in God’s eyes and we must do everything we can to help them to embrace the fullness of the Catholic Faith.
I appreciate the work that Sherry does. I am sure that most of us Catholics have been shocked hearing ignorant and misinformed comments about the Catholic Church from former Catholics. I know I have. I don’t know what happened but a lot of our sheep were neglected and ignored, and others are eager to step in. I think a lot of us are hurt and disillusioned seeing so many of our church community defecting to other churches, we want to do something, but don’t know what to do. I don’t have a teaching charism and am too shy to evangelize but am eager to support those who can and do. I would bet many other Catholics feel the same way.
And we must always remember that EVERY convert is valued in God’s eyes and we must do everything we can to help them to embrace the fullness of the Catholic Faith.
Amen, Eric! Preach it brother!
I would only add the RCIA is one of the most brilliant structures with a potential for profound conversion that I’ve ever encountered. I actually dreamed of something like it before I was Catholic and was stunned to discover it already existed!
It is not RCIA itself but our (here I”m talking broadly) lack of an evangelical imagination and vision, lack of skills, etc. Where RCIA team and directors do it right, amazing things happen even for those who are there “just” for family or marriage reasons.
I have written about this all at considerable length in my blog series “Whither RCIA?” in case anyone is interested.
Great post and comments! Very thought-provoking…
Matt wrote: I know, I know: anybody who has received a valid Christian baptism is in fact a Christian, and a Catholic unawares
Unfortunately many Evangelical groups do not practice baptism any more as they believe it not necessary for salvation. Jesus is coming soon they say , he is just waiting for the Temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem. They claim they are Bibilical, and my question is, where in the bible is this?
How would one choose an Evangelical group?, certainly not by their Doctrine as they have none, only the charisma of their preacher prevails, which they ironically believe is infallible..
They also ignore John 6: 33-66 or try to explain it away….. Perhaps this part of scripture they do not take literally, pick and choose.!!!
Gary,
Gruene, Texas
Eric, I’d like to suggest that a big problem at play here is the bureaucracy of the average Catholic parish which is impersonal and operates with low expectations of the faithful. Also, I would argue that aside from the tragedy of confusion caused by abuse, at the heart of the mixed experiences of converts and apostates or heretics is probably a lack of proper education: specifically a non philosophical understanding of human nature.
At the heart of Pope Benedict XVI’s Regensburg address (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html) he tried to explain that the problem in today’s universities (and I would argue in most schools in general) is the inability to understand the relationship between faith and reason. He explains that Christians are still suffering from a process of Dehellenization within the Catholic Church and within the civilized world at large. What this means is that Christians and Western civilization, which was founded within the context of the spread of Christianity, has become rootless. All the work that was done in developing Christian doctrine within the Early Church and beyond is threatened by a society that no longer appreciates nor needs philosophy. A world weak in rationality is in danger of not knowing who God is.
For the rootless, we search in the wrong places for truth and we definately make mistakes. RCIA programs are a great example of being overly psychological and weak in serious philosophical content and rigorous discussion. Instead, I have heard from recent converts from Protestantism within my circle in Phoenix saying that while attending the RCIA program at our parish they were wishing they could have escaped but really wanted to become Catholic. These converts were disappointed in the structure of RCIA because it lended itself to becoming like a support group where sharing your feelings is highly regarded. (This same thing goes on in schools–disorganized thinking and subjectivism is encouraged. As long as they are reading or writing or discussing is all that matters. Arriving at truth systematically isn’t conceivable. In fact, there is no universal truth.)
Studying Ancient Philosophy and St. Thomas Aquinas quickly teaches us that there is such a thing as universal human nature and universal truths and how they are arrived at–that philosophy is the handmaid of theology. Even those converts who aren’t egg-heads will be equipped with ways to unscramble their selves! It’s simply not good enough that they are in RCIA. My hubby did not have to go through with RCIA when he became Catholic because he knew the director of catechesis at the parish. And after sitting down with him and the pastor and with the pastor’s permission from the Bishop, he became Catholic. And that’s because my husband already had a great education in the faith–better than mine and I’m a cradle Catholic. In fact, I’ve learned a lot from my husband and he benefits from my intuitiveness from living the Catholic Faith for 37 years.
In order to approach such a broad topic as the phenomenom of conversion ‘out of’ versus ‘into’ the Catholic Faith, we must recognize that two perspectives exist: Mankinds vs Gods. We can debate forever the reasons, as we understand them, that people join or leave the Catholic Faith. I grew up an active Protestant, going off to a Methodist University to major in comperative religions. After college I married and joined my Lutheran husband’s church. Twelve years later he became an ELCA Lutheran pastor. I never relinquished my love of religious studies and as a pastor’s wife I was immersed in theological discussions. In 2002, after years of struggle with my husband, I was Confirmed a Catholic. Thus, from a human perspective,it was my intellectual pursuit that opened me to conversion to Catholicism. However, I am even more convinced that the Lord is the Author of our Faith and it is He who masterminds our coming to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Furthermore, I am certain that without the Sacraments I would have remained simply a child of God, as our Jewish brothers and sisters. Neither they, nor the Protestants, Evangelicals or Pentacostals accept the reality of becoming the Body of Christ. It is impossible as Jesus said in the Gospel of John: Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you do not have life in you (nor any part of me) … And Jesus is the Way, the Life, and the Truth. It is a mystery… and yet both intellectuals and much-less-cerebral Catholics believe it. If God is God, He is so far beyond our comprehension, that to say, ‘I believe’ is in itself a gift. In fact, one of the most astounding teachings I have discovered on becoming Catholic is that we truly cannot judge the veracity of another’s faith in God. This is why the leaders of the Church spend little, if any, time rejecting teachings of the non-Catholic churches… BUT… at the same time, from the Protestant revolution; which gave birth to Evangelicals and Pentecostals; on up to the store-front-homegrown-independent-Bible-believing-church which will open its doors this very day; almost all are proudly confident that only they are right and Catholics are especially ‘wrong’…and in need of conversion to the true faith.
In the end, why I became Catholic is by the Grace of God. I can look back over my life and see evidence that the Holy Spirit was leading me, patiently and steadfastly Home. My grandfather was born in Slovenia and before he came to the US he had studied to be a priest. I believe he and all of my faithful ancestors who, while deceased, are still part of the Body of Christ, are praying for me. I believe in the powerful intercession of the Saints… and in particular of our most gracious Blessed Mother Mary. Yes, I had to be willing to recieve the gifts of the Holy Spirit which actualized my Faith at my confirmation into the Catholic Church.
Returning to the question of the part humans play, it is useful to look at the parables of Jesus. To convert into the Catholic faith is to be like the prodigal son, on our knees saying, “Father, I am not worthy”. In contrast,to leave the Catholic faith may be like the older brother, unwilling to forgive even his own brother, defiantly telling the Father… “I will not come in!”
I think that this parable best describes the topic of Eric’s blog… Which brother comes into the Feast… and which brother walks away from It?
What a fascinating essay with interesting comments in response! I read each of them with great interest. Here are a few of my thoughts as someone who has always been Catholic and have met Catholic converts only recently. Some I’ve met personally in my parish, and others I have met in places like this, a blog.
I was blessed to know the basics of the Catholic faith very well by the time I graduated from 8th grade at a Catholic School (1960 before Vatican Council II). Furthermore, I was blessed to learn even more than the basics during my Catholic high school and Catholic university education. All well and good.
More important than all that, however, has been my spiritual growth through prayer and the sacraments. All of this began in my earliest childhood. Some of you talk about your conversion. Here’s my little essay about mine: http://ikeepmymemorieshere.blogspot.com/2009/04/growing-up-catholic-1-my-first.html. This is just one essay among many that I posted about my early years of Catholic education, which isn’t all about head knowledge. Some of you might enjoy them.
It is very different, I think, to have been brought up in the faith and lived the faith—faithfully, than to have moved from one denomination to another, especially if that happened in one’s adult life. I say this based on reading what Catholic converts have to say.
Here’s an analogy. Some people immigrate to the U.S. as adults. Later they become U.S. citizens. They are very enthusiastic citizens and contribute their gifts to our country, vote, etc. They enrich us by all these things. What I have found, however, is that there are aspects of their former life that are retained, more or less. They generally speak differently, even if they have learned English well. Even the Irish immigrants retain their brogue and certain idiomatic expressions. Does it mean they are unAmerican? NO!
So what’s my point? I think adult converts to the Catholic faith are like the immigrants, maybe spiritual immigrants???? They have lots to offer. (But, I wish they would refrain from being so negatively critical about their perceptions of what’s wrong with lifelong Catholics and/or the Catholic Church.) We are each responsible for the graces we have received. God, in His Divine Providence, will make sure EVERYONE has the opportunity to be saved. He can handle it.
God bless all you spiritual immigrants, and WELCOME!
I think you make some very excellent points, definitely rings true from my experiences. I’m a Catholic convert from Evangelical Christianity.
Re: RCIA being intellectual.. I went through RCIA and it was horribly dumbed down. There was no theology, no Scripture, no Church history. None of the theological issues that truly divide Catholics and Protestants were mentioned (faith alone, Sola Scriptura, Real Presence, Tradition, etc.). These are the issues that brought me to the Church to begin with and RCIA offered no help in these areas.
It was obviously designed for those knew nothing of Christianity (who is Jesus? what is the Bible?.) We actually had pamphlets to teach us about Catholicism that looked designed for children.
The rest was a “how-to” for being Catholic (when to kneel during Mass, Stations of the Cross, praying the Rosary, etc.) and just a bit about abortion & contraception and homosexuality (I had already agreed with the Church long before ever even considering seeking it, as pretty much every single Protestant I know does, so there was nothing new here.)
And I hear these stories over and over again. RCIA wasn’t actually designed for ex-Protestants anyway, as I understand it. They just lump the groups together now for ease.
Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with RCIA. It left much to be desired. I didn’t expect seminary level teaching, but I didn’t expect what I got either.
Lauren,
It is quite true that R.C.I.A. is really not for Christians changing denominations. It is unfortunate when they are placed along side non-Christians. It’s like putting those who need to learn the alphabet together with those who can read at an adult level from a variety of sources.
It’s a fact that most parishes don’t have the human resources to do R.C.I.A. properly. But you’re happily Catholic, I hope, and know where to get/find the answers you need.
1º of all I do not agree with Norm Geisler’s claim that “The trade-off highly favors evangelicalism.”. Why? cause firstly, I live in south america and believe me, their growth is NOT as huge as they try to portrait it. In Argentina, they constitute a mere 10% of the religious population, while catholics are around 20%. They’re a very “noisy crowd”, but they’re not a big crowd; and secondly because they’re basically getting the worse of our church, while we’re getting the BEST of their churches and denominations. The former evangelicals, especially the ex pastors, are people that trade prominent churches, ministries, careers, etc. for an uncertain future in the Catholic Church. They get hate, insults, judgement and/or indiference from their families and/or friends, and/or former church. If that’s not LOVE for Jesus,then I don’t know what love is anymore.
2º While it is true that many bad catholics are trading the Church of Jesus for a “made in the USA in the 1950′s” kinda church, isn’t that a legalistic way of thinking??? a small church can be as annointed if not more than a mega church. Your church may be filled with former “catholics” but how can you be so sure that those people are SERIOUSLY committed to Jesus Christ??? do you have any proof??? couldn’t it be that they come to your church because of the screaming, the music, the entertainment, the “good” fellow evangelicals, etc.? Most evangelicals, including the former “catholic” ones, would trade denominations if the pastor wasn’t a good preacher or if the crowd wasn’t welcoming or if the music ministry wasn’t “cool”. How can you say that someone like that is REALLY in love with Jesus, or truly convinced of the church he’s going to? As we know, the church is the “the pillar and support of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15). If you believe in the bible, then that means that you shuld be more than convinced that your church is that. But if you’re constantly changing churches, then how can you claim you believe in what the Lord says in that passage?? I don’t mean to generalize, but if that’s how they think, they’re SERIOUSLY mistaken, and time (and GOD, most importantly) will prove them wrong.
After reading some of this comments debating egg heads or not, the true test from each group is obedience the great “sign” of humility.
One problem I see with any sort of profiling is that we don’t want people moving in either direction for wrong motives. We don’t want to motivate Evangelicals through appeals to pride or elitism to become Catholic; nor do we want Catholics to become Evangelical out of false humility or mistaking feeling for spirituality. As an Evangelical considering Catholicism, I found it very off-putting to see Evangelical coverts to the Church described as the “brightest and best.” I saw this as manipulation, just as I did the false accusation from a Catholic that I was hesitating because I didn’t like the Church’s teaching on sexuality. Although I did convert, these sorts of things were stumbling blocks.
I do note with alarm the people in my parish who don’t know and don’t care what the Church teaches, or openly reject that teaching. It mystifies me why some bishops seem OK with this.
Belen, you make a good point. I spent years in a Calvary Chapel, which was to a large extent a cult of personality centered on the pastor. The Praise Band performed for the audience. The pastor’s sermons were supposedly “verse by verse” through the whole Bible, just “taking it at face value” although in truth the sermons were borrowed from the commentaries written by Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Matthew Henry and C.H. Spurgeon. And just 4-5 books of the Bible over and over. Discipleship and godly living were nearly non-existent due to the pastor’s defective (even from a Protestant perspective) understanding of grace and salvation. This developed into open scandal as the board (the pastor’s yes-men) went from dishonest business dealings, preying on the laity, to open adultery. By this time, the pastor was so incredibly filled with pride from his church’s rapid “growth” (i.e. in numbers) that he didn’t care that hundreds of us were leaving for other Evangelical churches. The pastor’s downfall eventually came when he was arrested for possession of illegal drugs and domestic battery.