Comments on: Fasting in the East and in the West http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/ Musings about the Catholic Faith Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:38:42 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.3 hourly 1 By: Frijo http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9259 Frijo Thu, 25 Mar 2010 05:02:11 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9259 hi... well i am from india i beleive from the eastern churches. i think that the habits of fasting also depends on the climatic conditions. here in india normally lent season falls in the season of summer, and to have meat and fish during this time is normally off schedule. hi… well i am from india i beleive from the eastern churches. i think that the habits of fasting also depends on the climatic conditions. here in india normally lent season falls in the season of summer, and to have meat and fish during this time is normally off schedule.

]]> By: Kenneth James http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9256 Kenneth James Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:34:49 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9256 The distinction in Europe is also to be found between people living in Northern Europe who take rules very seriously whereas those in Southern Europe (Italy Greece, Spain, Portugual etc) take them as ideals to be aimed for but failure is no big deal. The distinction in Europe is also to be found between people living in Northern Europe who take rules very seriously whereas those in Southern Europe (Italy Greece, Spain, Portugual etc) take them as ideals to be aimed for but failure is no big deal.

]]> By: Dr Mac http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9251 Dr Mac Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:07:23 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9251 What is also forgotten, I am afraid, is to what end one fasts. We don't do it to please God, we do it to change ourselves. Great Saints and Fathers, through their own ascetic experiences, instituted the Lenten fast (and others) in both East and West, as a "prescription" for healing of our soul. The first few times one tries to do it, I confess, it's acetic value maybe limited. But with practice, we dwell less on the food that we miss, and more on our sinfulness. I believe that fasting humbles us indeed, as Mr Sammons points out, but not so much because the fasting guidelines cannot be kept (Again, with practice, it's not as hard as it sounds), but because we realize "in devouring our brothers and sisters" how far our souls are from God, and how much we need His healing of our sinful nature. Lent is a time for penitence and a time for change. Fasting (as well as prayer and almsgiving) helps to change us for the better. In THAT way, we are pleasing to God. What is also forgotten, I am afraid, is to what end one fasts. We don’t do it to please God, we do it to change ourselves. Great Saints and Fathers, through their own ascetic experiences, instituted the Lenten fast (and others) in both East and West, as a “prescription” for healing of our soul. The first few times one tries to do it, I confess, it’s acetic value maybe limited. But with practice, we dwell less on the food that we miss, and more on our sinfulness. I believe that fasting humbles us indeed, as Mr Sammons points out, but not so much because the fasting guidelines cannot be kept (Again, with practice, it’s not as hard as it sounds), but because we realize “in devouring our brothers and sisters” how far our souls are from God, and how much we need His healing of our sinful nature.
Lent is a time for penitence and a time for change. Fasting (as well as prayer and almsgiving) helps to change us for the better. In THAT way, we are pleasing to God.

]]> By: Ken Zalewski http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9250 Ken Zalewski Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:47:22 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9250 One thing that might be good to remember is that pre-Vatican II, all days in Lent were days of fasting for Western (roman)Catholics. Each day in Lent the faithful were allowed one full meal, but meat was allowed during the main meal. On Friday,in addition to fasting, one had to abstain from meat as well. Doing this was a real penance and was considered a serious moral obligation. Today the West's standards are so low that there's hardly any penance being done at all. Traditionally, the East and West's views were more in-line with on another and unfortunately modern sensibilities have almost eradicated penance altogether in the Roman Church. One thing that might be good to remember is that pre-Vatican II, all days in Lent were days of fasting for Western (roman)Catholics. Each day in Lent the faithful were allowed one full meal, but meat was allowed during the main meal. On Friday,in addition to fasting, one had to abstain from meat as well. Doing this was a real penance and was considered a serious moral obligation. Today the West’s standards are so low that there’s hardly any penance being done at all. Traditionally, the East and West’s views were more in-line with on another and unfortunately modern sensibilities have almost eradicated penance altogether in the Roman Church.

]]> By: Denise http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9248 Denise Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:33:21 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9248 Yes, Mr. Sammons, but in my defense, he only mentioned the Eastern Church, not people as a whole. Yes, Mr. Sammons, but in my defense, he only mentioned the Eastern Church, not people as a whole.

]]> By: Eric Sammons http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9247 Eric Sammons Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:49:33 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9247 In Brandon's defense, our fallen natures can turn <i>any</i> practice into an occasion for pride. In Brandon’s defense, our fallen natures can turn any practice into an occasion for pride.

]]> By: Rellis http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9246 Rellis Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:28:54 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9246 Small correction: according to canon law, abstinence from meat is obligatory for all Latin-rite Catholics on ALL Fridays of the year (unless a solemnity falls on a Friday). For these purposes, Lenten Fridays are (according to law) virtually indistinct from all other Fridays. The only difference is that on other Fridays, Catholics are permitted by episcopal indult to substitute some other penitential practice. But if they don't, the default is still fleshmeat abstinence. What a great example of the "keep it simple, stupid" principle. It used to be an easy to understand standard. The bishops muddled it up in the 1960s, and now the Friday abstinence has been forgotten (even on this blog, apparently). Small correction: according to canon law, abstinence from meat is obligatory for all Latin-rite Catholics on ALL Fridays of the year (unless a solemnity falls on a Friday).

For these purposes, Lenten Fridays are (according to law) virtually indistinct from all other Fridays.

The only difference is that on other Fridays, Catholics are permitted by episcopal indult to substitute some other penitential practice. But if they don’t, the default is still fleshmeat abstinence.

What a great example of the “keep it simple, stupid” principle. It used to be an easy to understand standard. The bishops muddled it up in the 1960s, and now the Friday abstinence has been forgotten (even on this blog, apparently).

]]> By: Denise http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9232 Denise Wed, 24 Mar 2010 04:40:44 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9232 Brandon, I disagree. There are many within our Eastern Church who 'listen' very well... and keep the fast much more fervently than those in the West (by the way, I'm Roman Catholic by Rite, but have been attending the Byzantine Church for some time). Great Lent, however, is not the only time of year the East fasts. Our fasting time includes: The Great Fast (Lent)-beginning on a Monday 7 weeks before Easter; Fast of the Apostles-varying in length from 1 to 6 weeks - it begins on a Monday, 8 days after Pentecost, and ends on June 28-the eve of the feast of Saints Peter and Paul; Fast of the Repose of the Virgin Mary--August 1 to 14. Christmas Fast -lasting 40 days, from November 15 to December 24. So it's not a matter of pride... we're just more used to fasting. In all actuality, we've more Roman Catholics in our parish than we do Eastern Rite. I think that's because not only for Lent, but for other practices or rubrics, the Catholic Church is much more relaxed. People hunger for more. Maybe some would stop listening, as you say, if more were expected of her people. But I also believe that many would rejoice and embrace a more disciplined life with devotion. At least, that's my experience from my last RC church as well as those RC I've met who've come East. Our pastor says it this way, as we began Great Lent: The only thing you are NOT to fast from, is fasting. With the help of your spiritual father, choose your fast and stick with it. It's really about the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law as Mr. Sammons so eloquently stated. Brandon, I disagree. There are many within our Eastern Church who ‘listen’ very well… and keep the fast much more fervently than those in the West (by the way, I’m Roman Catholic by Rite, but have been attending the Byzantine Church for some time). Great Lent, however, is not the only time of year the East fasts. Our fasting time includes: The Great Fast (Lent)-beginning on a Monday 7 weeks before Easter; Fast of the Apostles-varying in length from 1 to 6 weeks – it begins on a Monday, 8 days after Pentecost, and ends on June 28-the eve of the feast of Saints Peter and Paul; Fast of the Repose of the Virgin Mary–August 1 to 14.
Christmas Fast -lasting 40 days, from November 15 to December 24. So it’s not a matter of pride… we’re just more used to fasting.

In all actuality, we’ve more Roman Catholics in our parish than we do Eastern Rite. I think that’s because not only for Lent, but for other practices or rubrics, the Catholic Church is much more relaxed. People hunger for more. Maybe some would stop listening, as you say, if more were expected of her people. But I also believe that many would rejoice and embrace a more disciplined life with devotion. At least, that’s my experience from my last RC church as well as those RC I’ve met who’ve come East.

Our pastor says it this way, as we began Great Lent: The only thing you are NOT to fast from, is fasting. With the help of your spiritual father, choose your fast and stick with it.

It’s really about the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law as Mr. Sammons so eloquently stated.

]]> By: Brandon Vogt http://ericsammons.com/blog/2010/03/23/fasting-in-the-east-and-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9221 Brandon Vogt Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:05:25 +0000 http://ericsammons.com/blog/?p=7734#comment-9221 But at the same time, the Eastern-style fast can be a hyper-dangerous path to pride. The thought process may go like this: "If one perfectly holds the less-strict Western fast, they may be a disciplined person. But if one holds the intense Eastern-fast, they must be transcendentally disciplined or spiritual!" Sometimes I lament the reality that the Church doesn't call people to higher levels of discipline and devotion in the realm of fasting, but other times I realize that if She did, many people would then stop listening altogether. But at the same time, the Eastern-style fast can be a hyper-dangerous path to pride. The thought process may go like this:

“If one perfectly holds the less-strict Western fast, they may be a disciplined person. But if one holds the intense Eastern-fast, they must be transcendentally disciplined or spiritual!”

Sometimes I lament the reality that the Church doesn’t call people to higher levels of discipline and devotion in the realm of fasting, but other times I realize that if She did, many people would then stop listening altogether.

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